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[“红岩”中的叛徒][讨论]关于叛徒的话题 [复制链接]

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离线岁寒

只看该作者 40楼 发表于: 2007-03-14
那个叛徒临死前喊“红军万岁”、“苏维埃万岁”,到底是代主任事先安排他这么喊以蒙骗钱之江呢还是他发自内心这么喊的呢?对了,这个叛徒就是受刑不过叛变的,叛变之前很是坚持了一段时间。
“按预定计划,岁寒只能把大家送到这里,她还要连夜赶回她的岁寒书屋去。大家跟她握手话别后下车,目送着她独自一人驾车返回……”
离线穆阑

只看该作者 41楼 发表于: 2007-03-14
是代安排的
离线岁寒

只看该作者 42楼 发表于: 2007-03-15
李文祥叛变了,妻子未叛;蒲华辅叛变了,妻子未叛;任达哉叛变了,未婚妻未叛;刘国定叛变了,他的妻子……大概徐远举没有向严炯涛追究什么吧?

秦鼎、秦耀兄弟两个,也是只叛了一个。
“按预定计划,岁寒只能把大家送到这里,她还要连夜赶回她的岁寒书屋去。大家跟她握手话别后下车,目送着她独自一人驾车返回……”
离线yihong

只看该作者 43楼 发表于: 2007-03-16
这里想介绍一下法国二战抵抗运动中的优秀战士Jean Moulin. 我只摘一小段, 有兴趣的朋友可全文读一下. French resistence 组织有6-700人, 二站后幸存的仅百般余人. 大多死于盖世太保的折磨. Jean Moulin 是被叛徒出卖被捕的. 他多次受刑, 被割, 烧, 煮, 最后全身骨头均被打断, 仍坚贞不屈, 英勇牺牲.

多年后, 法国名导Jean-Pierre Melville (法国抵抗运动的一员)拍出大名片"army of the shadow"(1969), 追溯这段历史. 该片被公认为世界影坛的瑰宝. 笔者有幸在影院观摩该片, 感人肺腑.

我2001年游巴黎曾去"先贤峙"(PANTHEON)瞻仰Jean Moulin之墓. 他与大文豪卢梭, 雨果, 左拉等葬在一起.

http://members.aol.com/voyl/barbie/moulin.htm

Moulin's trip to Lyon proved to be his undoing. Shortly after arriving in Lyon, Moulin received a coded message to meet other Resistance leaders in a park in Lyon. When Moulin and several of his associates arrived in, they were were surrounded by Barbie's Gestapo unit and arrested. In planning Moulin's capture, Barbie almost certainly had help from French collaborators. Shortly before Moulin's Lyon meeting, the Lyon Gestapo, led by Klaus Barbie infiitrated Moulin's organization and captured Rene Hardy, a Resistance member who specialized in railway sabotage. Although Barbie hauled Hardy to his imfamous torture chamber in Hotel Terminus, Hardy emerged the next day unscathed. Many historians speculate that Hardy agreed to collaborate with Barbie in exchange for his life.

For Barbie, Moulin was a prize catch; after all he was the highest French Resistance leader on French soil and therefore privy to all kinds of secrets. After several Gestapo agents "softened up" Moulin with a showed of kicks and punches, Barbie arrived and began his "interview" with Moulin. Barbie, who was regarded by a sadist even by his fellow Gestapo officers, declared that he would "crack" Moulin by breaking his bones one at a time. Some time into the interrogation, Barbie handed Moulin a blank piece of paper and demanded that Moulin write down the names and locations of all French Resistance leaders. Moulin's response was famous: instead of writing down names, he drew a charichature of his torturer. Barbie, however, was just as stubborn as Moulin and he responded to his captive's silence by ordering his men to cut, burn, and scald Moulin.

Moulin withstood all of Barbie's tortures without betraying his cause but he paid a dear price for not cooperating with his captor. After a few days, Moulin's life had become routine; he spend his days at Hotel Terminus and his nights at Montluc Prison. Each night Moulin returned to prison he had a new injury. After several days, both of Moulin's arms and legs were broken, as were most of his ribs (incredibly, Barbie claimed that Moulin had broken his these bones himself by bashing himself against the prison wall in a vain attempt to escape). While was suffering in captivity, his comrades hatched a plan to break him out of jail. But just before the jailbreak took place, Barbie transferred the physically broken Moulin to Paris for a new round of interrogation.

In Paris, Moulin faced more torture but still did not reveal anything of substance to his captors. After weeks of torture, Moulin's body was broken and he succumbed to his extensive injuries in early July, 1943 while being transferred from Paris to Germany. His body was anonymously repatriated in Paris and was incinerated there.
离线yihong

只看该作者 44楼 发表于: 2007-03-16
Here is another excerpt from Roger Ebert's review of the film. Before Jean Moulin died, he was tortured to the degree that he was not able to speak a word.

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060521/REVIEWS08/605210301

How did the Resistance fighters feel, risking their lives for a country that had officially surrendered? What were their rewards? In 1940, Melville says, the Resistance in all numbered only 600. Many of them died under torture, including Jean Moulin, the original of Luc Jardie. Kessel: "Since he was no longer able to speak, one of the Gestapo chiefs, Klaus Barbie, handed him a piece of paper on which he had written, 'Are you Jean Moulins?' Jean Moulin's only reply was to take the pencil from Colonel Barbie and cross out the 's'."
离线铿尔

只看该作者 45楼 发表于: 2007-03-16
引用第44楼岁寒2007-03-15 17:50发表的“”:
李文祥叛变了,妻子未叛;蒲华辅叛变了,妻子未叛;任达哉叛变了,未婚妻未叛;刘国定叛变了,他的妻子……大概徐远举没有向严炯涛追究什么吧?
秦鼎、秦耀兄弟两个,也是只叛了一个。


从严炯涛在刘国定决定叛变的思想斗争中所占的地位看,刘国定倒是有点像《朝霞满天》中甫志高的原型了。
PS:严炯涛不是党内成员吧?那徐就算想追究也追究不出什么来的。
另,弱弱的问一声,蒲华辅妻子叫什么?(貌似没被徐抓住——这个和李文祥任达哉两人的情况有所不同。)我不记得了……
望断云天暮与朝,双星聚首叹今宵。情深每笑银河浅,心近毋愁白馆遥。一曲囚歌明志洁,千针文绣喻松骄。丹心矢志长相守,乌鹊何须更筑桥。
离线yihong

只看该作者 46楼 发表于: 2007-03-16
引用第47楼铿尔2007-03-16 11:52发表的“”:
另,弱弱的问一声,蒲华辅妻子叫什么?(貌似没被徐抓住——这个和李文祥任达哉两人的情况有所不同。)我不记得了…… [表情]


郭德贤. 白公馆脱险志士之一.
离线岁寒

只看该作者 47楼 发表于: 2007-03-16
引用第47楼铿尔2007-03-16 11:52发表的“”:
PS:严炯涛不是党内成员吧?那徐就算想追究也追究不出什么来的。
另,弱弱的问一声,蒲华辅妻子叫什么?(貌似没被徐抓住——这个和李文祥任达哉两人的情况有所不同。)我不记得了…… [表情]

严是中共地下党员。党龄应该不算短吧。
蒲的妻子郭德贤救过马识途。蒲被捕后,特务蹲守,她被监管,于是她设法让佣人去给马报警,当时马正准备去蒲家开会。
入狱之后,整天面对叛变了的丈夫,不知她作何感想。还有蒲的最终被枪决。还有解放后不断的审查、交待……唉,不容易啊。
“按预定计划,岁寒只能把大家送到这里,她还要连夜赶回她的岁寒书屋去。大家跟她握手话别后下车,目送着她独自一人驾车返回……”
离线yihong

只看该作者 48楼 发表于: 2007-03-16
引用第50楼佛祖拈花2007-03-16 12:30发表的“”:
真是强悍得非人类啊。。。


其实Jean Moulin也是有可能成为叛徒的. 1940年他第一次被捕. 受刑当晚, 他怕自己再次受刑不过成叛徒, 就用玻璃片割喉自杀. 后被送医院急救, 逃脱. 43年二次被捕后, 他经受住了各种非刑折磨. 当Barbie (臭名昭著的纳粹"里昂屠夫")逼其交出组织时, Moulin在纸上画了Barbie像. Barbie气急败坏, 令手下用沸水烫之!

Moulin现在是法国妇孺皆知的民族英雄,其地位可能还超越了圣女贞德. 但如果没有那玻璃片,他是否会动摇? 英雄与叛徒, 有时是否就.....一念之差?
离线岁寒

只看该作者 49楼 发表于: 2007-03-16
YIHONG,祝贺你,汉字输入终于进入挥洒自如的境地了。
“按预定计划,岁寒只能把大家送到这里,她还要连夜赶回她的岁寒书屋去。大家跟她握手话别后下车,目送着她独自一人驾车返回……”
离线yihong

只看该作者 50楼 发表于: 2007-03-16
引用第52楼岁寒2007-03-16 20:06发表的“”:
YIHONG,祝贺你,汉字输入终于进入挥洒自如的境地了。 [表情]



等你砸砖呵! 周末我写一下青年近卫军的事, 估计要被批.
离线苗溪

只看该作者 51楼 发表于: 2007-03-16
引用第45楼yihong2007-03-16 10:58发表的“”:
这里想介绍一下法国二战抵抗运动中的优秀战士Jean Moulin. 我只摘一小段, 有兴趣的朋友可全文读一下.
.......

全文在哪里?

引用第45楼yihong2007-03-16 10:58发表的“”:
多年后, 法国名导Jean-Pierre Melville (法国抵抗运动的一员)拍出大名片"army of the shadow"(1969), 追溯这段历史. 该片被公认为世界影坛的瑰宝. 笔者有幸在影院观摩该片, 感人肺腑.

.......

刚刚查了下,这个片子我们这里图书馆没有哦。
~~追~~
离线allegro

只看该作者 52楼 发表于: 2007-03-16
引用第19楼苗溪2007-03-12 06:42发表的“”:
个人觉得岁寒的问题实在不容易用文字回答,和她在电话里聊了很久,很多东西非常矛盾,自己现在也理不出个头绪来,不知如何表达才好,想想还是多看看大家的观点吧。
.......



不好用文字回答那咋答?看看两位军长谁披露一下自己的电话号码,偶们打过去和你俩聊聊
离线岁寒

只看该作者 53楼 发表于: 2007-03-16
要是给苗溪同学打电话,那银子可就花得海了去了
“按预定计划,岁寒只能把大家送到这里,她还要连夜赶回她的岁寒书屋去。大家跟她握手话别后下车,目送着她独自一人驾车返回……”
离线allegro

只看该作者 54楼 发表于: 2007-03-16
委托在也在那地界儿的lin打。岁寒这个话题突难议论的。
离线苗溪

只看该作者 55楼 发表于: 2007-03-16
引用第57楼allegro2007-03-16 21:17发表的“”:
委托在也在那地界儿的lin打。岁寒这个话题突难议论的。 [表情]


我可不和lin聊这个,再说我自己还糊涂着呢。
~~追~~
离线yihong

只看该作者 56楼 发表于: 2007-03-16
引用第54楼苗溪2007-03-16 20:51发表的“”:
刚刚查了下,这个片子我们这里图书馆没有哦。


It will be released by Criterion on DVD this April. Criterion only releases true classics on DVD.

全文在哪里?



http://members.aol.com/voyl/barbie/moulin.htm

离线yihong

只看该作者 57楼 发表于: 2007-03-16
苗苗,

Take a look at this message board where there is a good deal of argument about using torture to get information. Here is an excerpt:


Torture only works if you get the information you are seeking, and the information is fully accurate. That happens in a small percentage of cases; in almost all such instances, the person being tortured has to know that you are able to verify in short order the truthfulness of what he says.

As for perhaps the most savage torture on record in the 20th Century, the interrogation of Jean Moulin, the head of the French Resistance in WWII, it was unsuccessful.




http://www.easternuswx.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=97845&st=60&p=1227305&#entry1227305

只看该作者 58楼 发表于: 2007-03-18
感触颇深,真不敢想像当时的环境下,如果是俺 ,俺 该怎么办?
多一份力量,就多一份希望!
离线allegro

只看该作者 59楼 发表于: 2007-03-24
引用第61楼回忆那片往事2007-03-18 02:02发表的“”:
感触颇深,真不敢想像当时的环境下,如果是俺 ,俺 该怎么办?


您,打算中共还是军统?呵呵
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